11-01-2015, 02:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-02-2015, 01:26 AM by Lunamancer.)
I just saw someone on a facebook group dig up the old spectre of order of action in AD&D 1st Ed BtB.
I don't remember if it was blusponge who created it. I seem to remember him way, way back (possibly as far back as the usenet days) having an intricate outline that was allegedly the correctly interpreted 1st Ed way.
I always thought that sort of analysis was overblown. The way initiative worked at its core was very simple. It's just that like most rules, there were exceptions. And AD&D really tried to account for a lot of the exceptions.
Initiative begins simply enough with a group d6, highest goes first.
Exception #1 There can be sub-groups as appropriate, even right down to the individual. An NPC necromancer might use one initiative roll, skeleton a separate initiative roll, zombies still another, and acolytes make it a 4th roll for the monsters. Meanwhile each of 4 PCs might be given individual initiative rolls while NPC hirelings/henchment given a single roll for the entire lot of them.
Exception #2 Common sense applies. Movement, for example, does not go from zero to 120' just because your initiative is up. Rather it happens more or less evenly throughout the round. Two opposing forces beginning 120' apart, each with a 12" movement rate, moving towards each other to do battle will meet in the middle of the ground. They will not be allowed to use melee strikes at the beginning of the round no matter how good the initiative roll is.
Exception #3 Charge attacks, as clearly stated in the rules, defer to weapon length for determination of first strike. Since the charge involves movement, #2 also applies when determining overall order of action.
Exception #4 In case of tie, weapon speed is the tie breaker. There is also an optional rule where on tied initiative, a much faster weapon may get multiple attacks against a much slower weapon.
Exception #5 Multiple attacks are spread throughout the round. 2 attacks automatically go first and last (this is subject to initiative, of course, if your opponent also has 2 attacks). 3 go first, last, and at initiative.
Exception #6 concerns ranged weapons with set "rates of fire" and really combines #2 and #5. Rates of fire are spread evenly throughout the round and can be synced with movement rates. If you have a bow with a rate of fire of 2 shots per round and your opponent is closing in at a rate of 12" from a distance of 120 feet, you're definitely getting a shot off before he engages, no matter what the initiative roll is. As for the 2nd shot? That would be a close call, so that would be determined by the initiative roll.
Other notable exceptions come up with the pummeling/grappling/overbearing rules and also casting time vs a melee weapon.
But what I'd like to suggest is this motif can really apply to any RPG (that doesn't inseparably wed initiative to its other mechanics) and is a pretty damn good way of running things. If you take the perspective that it is ultra simple, just with exception handlers, you can have the best of both worlds. Simplicity and detail.
And I add one final tweak to it. Some kind of "Joss" or "Action Point" system (many RPGs already have these) that allow for "interrupt" type actions--basically a free action a character can take so long as it can logically fit--in other words, it doesn't give you double movement, but can allow something like an additional attack (or parry) provided there is an enemy nearby. This would include an additional spell cast, so long as there is time left in the round after casting time. (In AD&D, for example, most 1st level spells only take one-tenth of a round to cast, but the caster is only allowed to cast one per round. This free action would allow a second spell, so long as the total casting time remains under 10 segments). With the aid of some sort of "speed" check, this can be used to react quickly enough so as to interrupt the action another is about to take. The idea here is to keep the orderly play of turn-based combat, but add something that gives it more of a realtime feel, where the action is not neatly confined to rounds.
I don't remember if it was blusponge who created it. I seem to remember him way, way back (possibly as far back as the usenet days) having an intricate outline that was allegedly the correctly interpreted 1st Ed way.
I always thought that sort of analysis was overblown. The way initiative worked at its core was very simple. It's just that like most rules, there were exceptions. And AD&D really tried to account for a lot of the exceptions.
Initiative begins simply enough with a group d6, highest goes first.
Exception #1 There can be sub-groups as appropriate, even right down to the individual. An NPC necromancer might use one initiative roll, skeleton a separate initiative roll, zombies still another, and acolytes make it a 4th roll for the monsters. Meanwhile each of 4 PCs might be given individual initiative rolls while NPC hirelings/henchment given a single roll for the entire lot of them.
Exception #2 Common sense applies. Movement, for example, does not go from zero to 120' just because your initiative is up. Rather it happens more or less evenly throughout the round. Two opposing forces beginning 120' apart, each with a 12" movement rate, moving towards each other to do battle will meet in the middle of the ground. They will not be allowed to use melee strikes at the beginning of the round no matter how good the initiative roll is.
Exception #3 Charge attacks, as clearly stated in the rules, defer to weapon length for determination of first strike. Since the charge involves movement, #2 also applies when determining overall order of action.
Exception #4 In case of tie, weapon speed is the tie breaker. There is also an optional rule where on tied initiative, a much faster weapon may get multiple attacks against a much slower weapon.
Exception #5 Multiple attacks are spread throughout the round. 2 attacks automatically go first and last (this is subject to initiative, of course, if your opponent also has 2 attacks). 3 go first, last, and at initiative.
Exception #6 concerns ranged weapons with set "rates of fire" and really combines #2 and #5. Rates of fire are spread evenly throughout the round and can be synced with movement rates. If you have a bow with a rate of fire of 2 shots per round and your opponent is closing in at a rate of 12" from a distance of 120 feet, you're definitely getting a shot off before he engages, no matter what the initiative roll is. As for the 2nd shot? That would be a close call, so that would be determined by the initiative roll.
Other notable exceptions come up with the pummeling/grappling/overbearing rules and also casting time vs a melee weapon.
But what I'd like to suggest is this motif can really apply to any RPG (that doesn't inseparably wed initiative to its other mechanics) and is a pretty damn good way of running things. If you take the perspective that it is ultra simple, just with exception handlers, you can have the best of both worlds. Simplicity and detail.
And I add one final tweak to it. Some kind of "Joss" or "Action Point" system (many RPGs already have these) that allow for "interrupt" type actions--basically a free action a character can take so long as it can logically fit--in other words, it doesn't give you double movement, but can allow something like an additional attack (or parry) provided there is an enemy nearby. This would include an additional spell cast, so long as there is time left in the round after casting time. (In AD&D, for example, most 1st level spells only take one-tenth of a round to cast, but the caster is only allowed to cast one per round. This free action would allow a second spell, so long as the total casting time remains under 10 segments). With the aid of some sort of "speed" check, this can be used to react quickly enough so as to interrupt the action another is about to take. The idea here is to keep the orderly play of turn-based combat, but add something that gives it more of a realtime feel, where the action is not neatly confined to rounds.
